Transitions in Life-Conversation with Pekka Varvas

We’ve been offering, encouraging, and teaching spiritual friendship for 30-plus years. We’ve introduced ‘On Further Reflection’ podcasts as a series of sporadic offerings to explore some of the issues around spiritual friendship that we have discovered over the years.

 Joining me today is a long-time friend, Pekka Varvas, whose subject matter is really going to be about transitions in life, that we’re going to explore together. We have been friends since long before Touchstone started, but he has been a part of Touchstone since we began 36 years ago. And so - he understands us, he’s been a good friend, and a good supporter.

He’s been through several transitions - moving from Finland and arriving in Canada as a youngster, and being called a DP - a displaced person. He’s been through the transition of becoming a married man and having two children – Vanessa and Serena. He’s moved into the business world with his skills in art, design, advertising and marketing. He has been through several transitions in business - up and down - some success, some failure. And then, sold his business and has transitioned into retirement. He also has been through the transition of becoming a grand-parent, and having one of his daughters come out of the closet within the context of their very conservative theological community. He has also been through the transitions that come with age and stage in his own personal spiritual journey, in discovering the love of God for him and for the world around him.

I’m going to be spending some time asking Pekka some questions; he is going to share some answers and experiences, and we are going to see where this takes us.

N.A. - So, Pekka, why don’t you talk about the beginnings of your journey to Canada - what that was like being a youngster in the 1950’s, arriving from post-war Finland to post-war Canada?

P.V. - Yes, we immigrated to Canada in the mid-1950’s, and I think the reason that we ended up coming here was that my parents were very, very much concerned and afraid of what was happening with the big Next Door Neighbour. My Dad had fought in the war against the Soviets, saw their aggressive expansionism, and wanted to move the family (and especially the children) to a safe and secure place. So, we immigrated to Toronto in 1955. And, as Norm mentioned, at that time it was shortly after the War, and with all the immigration coming, we were considered DPs, or ‘Displaced Persons;’ moved into a real rough-and-tumble, blue-collar, working neighbourhood and started our journey there…

N.A. - Were you called a DP? Were you beat up? Did you wear funny clothes? You couldn’t speak English?

P.V. - All of what you mention. A funny little story: We started in school, and were wearing the funny looking clothes European kids wore at that time - the local kids here were wearing t-shirts and jeans. So, we definitely stood out; and literally every day after school, there were three of us little Finnish boys living, renting in the same house - we would get beat up every day. There would be a gang of kids waiting for us as we left the school, and they would just pounce on us. And we would go home with ripped clothes, dirty faces, with bruises, that sort of stuff. My mom is five foot nothing and a truly saintly person. One day, I was able to escape, ran home and told mom - “They’re beating us up again!” My mom in her holy anger, picked up a belt, went running into this group, wailing away at them with her belt - and we were left alone after that. So, that was sort of the beginning of our transition.

It was very interesting. We moved - I think every year, year-and-a-half to different rental places - until my parents could finally afford to buy their first home in the early 1960’s

N.A. - And your dad was establishing a business?

P.V. - No, my dad was a carpenter. Well, he was actually a farmer. We lived on a farm in Finland. He sold the farm and we made the move here. Dad went to work as a carpenter for his brother, who had immigrated a little earlier, building houses.

N.A. - And what role did church and faith play in that period of growing up in Canada, learning the language, and all that sort of stuff?

P.V. - I was just thinking about this before starting our conversation… I think our family was the third generation of born-again Christians. My grandparents were devout Christians, and passed along their faith to their children. Although my father and his brothers really didn’t take to it at the beginning. The 1939/40 War came along and they were conscripted into the army, where they experienced some pretty horrid things. Upon returning home - they were all traumatized with the horrors of the war - and three of Dad’s brothers came to the Lord as a result of that.

N.A. - So, their view was that - they didn’t say, “Well war was so horrible, I can’t believe in God,” - it was, “War was so horrible, I have to”?

P.V. - Pretty much that - yes.

Anyway, we were raised in a Christian home right from as far back as I can remember. Living on the farm in Finland, my mom was our Sunday School Teacher and for the local kids in our neighbourhood. Coming to Canada we joined the Finnish Pentecostal Church. And we grew up in the church our entire lives.

N.A. - And did that help you with the transition to English and to Canadian culture, or was there a difference between the two?

P.V. - It was very helpful. Having a Christian community - a Finnish Christian community here - was an enormous help and support. We didn’t speak the language and needed translators, didn’t understand the culture or educational system, needed help with all that. Mom and dad were simple farmers, had sold everything and we came with I think, two or three trunks, here to start something. It was a huge risk on their part.

N.A. - And so if you were to talk about how you were then a high school student - you were thinking about what you were going to do with your life - what kinds of transitions did you go through there?

P.V. - Well again - like I told you - we lived in these blue-collar neighbourhoods, and we made friends with the other young people around us. We went through scraps, and we were rather precocious, curious young kids. And the interesting thing is that given Mom and Dad’s teaching, care and love for us (despite the fact that we got into trouble) - I just remember very clearly that I would come home and that evening, I would have to confess my sins to my mom!

N.A. - So, who was scarier - God or your mother?

P.V. - Both! But my mom was dear and loving, and we were disciplined when we were caught doing bad things, but it was all done in love. Despite the fact that I was in terror of getting a spanking from my mom. You know, looking at it in hindsight, it was all done with a great deal of loving care. And teaching.

N.A. - So - when I first met you in the 70’s when I was with Youth for Christ, and you were with Creative Circle… So you were working with what’s-his-name Gordan Grey at LePage?

P.V. - After graduating from OCAD, I actually started working at The Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada – Testimony Press, their publishing group. Creative Circle came later.

N.A. - Anyway, my recollection was when you were in your beginning days in the real estate world, it was at Creative Circle… So how did you go from being a guy who was a Pentecostal boy working in the denominational head office to end up becoming not only an artistic, but also a creative talent  - and then entrepreneur - to create several businesses on your own in different partnerships over the next 35 or 40 years? What drove you, or what were the core things that caused you to have that kind of energy to do what you do?

P.V. - I think, in a sense, entrepreneurship - you either have it (that notion of taking risk to do something that you really want to do) - or you don’t. And I was one of these risk-takers. And after I left working at the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada head office, I really had the drive to want to do something on my own. It started that journey, first of all, going to work for A.E. LePage Real Estate, in their marketing group for some years; and then going onto one of the big national ad agencies, but I always had this thing in my gut that I wanted to have my own name on the door. And it was just one of these driving things that when the opportunity came - I was actually given a pink slip - I saw opportunity in it, and I took a couple of partners with me, and we started up our own business, taking the business that we were servicing with us. And so - that was a big risk. I already had a mortgage on the house and all that, but at that point I was young enough: I was willing to risk it all…

N.A. - How old were you when you started that?

Without doing the math - I was probably in my late 20’s, maybe early 30’s.

N.A. - So you and two of your partners took the book of business that you had for the ad agency to start…

P.V. - We did. We really did it really (I thought) well, in that the ad agency that I was with was having to rationalize their business, because they had lost the McDonald’s and the Ford business, and had to downsize. They were closing down the group we were in. So, we went to the owners, and said, “Listen - we’d like to take this business with us, so that you don’t get sued for breach of contract…” And they said, “Sure - with our blessing - go do it. And by the way, we’ll give you 6 months rent-free space to start your business.”

N.A. - Ah - very good. So how many different businesses… So that first one was Seppi-Varvas

P.V. - In the beginning it was actually “Solway Varvas”. And then we added another partner and it became “Solway Varvas Seppi”. And then from there, I think I had another three or four different companies.

N.A. - And the last one was ‘Drive Agency.’

P.V. - That’s right, yes.

N.A. - Pekka is a real driver! And Pekka has been quite involved in us doing this whole sort of thing - our whole social media side of things - he has been driving a lot of the development of that for Touchstone, which has been a real gift to us since you’ve retired.

So what role did your faith in God play in your practice of your business, in your feelings about your business, in your sense of purpose in your business?

P.V. - Well, you know it’s interesting: I think it first started off right after I graduated. I got that job at the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada. And I think I was there for about 5 years. It was a really wonderful grounding for me and my work in a way that I believed had purpose to it. To do my work ethically, honestly, with a sense of integrity to it. So, I think that was a good grounding for where I went afterwards.

N.A. - Because the advertising industry and the real estate industry - both of them are not necessarily known to be… you know: sometimes people colour outside the lines, would be a way to put it. Would you say you were navigating interesting territory that maybe your church family would be suspicious of, or …?

P.V. - I don’t know that the church family was suspicious. I continued to do some type of freelance work up to a point for Christian camps and some of the other organizations while I was working a secular job; but yes - there definitely are a lot of grey areas within the advertising/marketing business, because it’s a business of persuasion and putting your best food forward, it’s so easy to exaggerate and to push that boundary of what is truth and what isn’t. And so, that was a constant challenge - more so on the business front than within my church family, and their view of what I did. So, having a sense of integrity and honesty working in a secular context - that part I found very challenging, because I had to try to put my best foot forward on whatever we were promoting, and yet try to remain honest about it. And that’s the real challenge.

N.A. - Years ago, you were part of one of the earliest groups of Touchstone, and you’re still part of the same, the inheritors of that original group. What role did the group of guys that you still meet with, play in navigating some of the shoals of the advertising and the real estate industry?

P.V. – I really found the Touchstone groups extremely helpful: they really were kind of my accountability group, in a sense. Because we met regularly and we were able to be pretty honest with each other, raise ethics, integrity questions, a sense of honesty and being Jesus’ presence out in the marketplace. That was one of the things that I really kind of considered ‘church’ - in that we met regularly, we worshipped together and we looked at Scripture together, and we talked about being that person of integrity in a pretty rough-and-tumble marketplace.

N.A. - In that early days of Touchstone, I was borrowing space from a friend who, just around the market crash of ’87 had (with fear and trepidation) taken a company public. At one point, there was a discussion about me becoming a member of their board as an ‘ethical advisor,’ and one of the attractions to that would be that maybe it would get some attention in the business pages of the Globe and Mail, or Financial Post, or whatever. I remember discussing this with you, and you said you were opposed to it, and if we want attention, we can easily get it, because that’s your business - you know how to promote things. But you were opposed to it because you felt it violated a sense of the spirit of what you were trying to do with that group of guys you were with. Can you explain that?

P.V. - I really had strong feelings about the fact that our faith and our journey as Christians is not something to be marketed. You know, where you have an agenda, and you’re trying to sell a product. Or just trying to sell something. It was really more for me about community and communicating and sharing something that was very deep-seated in each one of us, and I just thought that marketing would have been a betrayal of that.

N.A. - It is interesting too, you were not immune to hard work and overnights and joining up with the group at 7 o’clock in the morning on the way home from having done an all-nighter to get a project finished. How did you maintain some sort of healthy relationship with your wife Anita and the kids, because you were in the middle of an extremely demanding business environment, it was your own business and your own money, so that has a way of putting more pressure on you than just if you’re working on a project for somebody else.

P.V. - I would say that it was probably the biggest challenge of my life: trying to have a balance in between starting up a business. literally with no capital to be invested into it, so it was all sweat equity, and working around the clock in order to be able to make the business viable. Anita, my wife, was just a saint through that process because I was so tired and so obsessed with starting up the business that I ended up sacrificing a lot for that. I had huge remorse later on over some of that, because the children weren’t seeing me - and there came a point where I really had to start changing my life, my schedule, so that I made room for them in addition to the really heavy and deadline-oriented business that we were in.

N.A. - One of the things I remember is that you seemed to be very actively involved in ‘Ringette’ - that you were travelling everywhere - they were very good Ringette players, they were involved in high-level competition, and you were just everywhere. Was that a part of that process?

P.V. - It was, very much, yes. I thought, “I need to commit myself to something - to things with my family.”  Both our girls were very athletic, and showed a real aptitude for sports. It wasn’t just Ringette (which was sort of girls’ hockey - they called it at that time) - it was baseball, and it was field hockey, rugby and ice hockey - all of those - so I definitely did encourage it. But that was the one time that I could really be with them. I was sat on the coach’s bench, and so we could have good conversations about it. And if we had to go to a tournament out of town, we’d spend 2, 3 hours, sometimes as much as 5 hours in a car, and you’ve got to talk about something. We had some really good, in-depth, soulful conversations and just sharing through those times.

N.A. - Right. Now - how long have you been married to Anita?

P.V. - Forty-eight years.

N.A. - All right. And you’re coming up to fifty in a couple, so you’ll have all kinds of expensive plans, no doubt, for that…

You’ve been through transitions in that family setting, so you’ve gone from being parent, to father-of-the-bride, to grandparent on one side; and then within the context of your conservative background, you have one daughter who has come out as a gay person, and that was an interesting time for you, as I recall our conversations some years ago. As you tried to figure out: What do I do about something that was a subject that was framed in very black and white  (and sometimes harsh) terms, within the tribes in which we were raised - and yet, what we were raised with didn’t seem to fit the situation that you were facing. Would that be a fair…?

P.V. - Norm, I would have to say that you were a great counsel for me. As was our Touchstone breakfast group. You were a great sounding-board, gave great advice - and also referrals. You know, I started having a premonition about Vanessa when she was in her late 20’s, but told no one. We grew up in the church: our children went to Sunday School, went to Youth Group - were leaders in their Youth Groups, and Vanessa in particular - she was in the worship group, she went on Missions trips through her youth; was baptized on her own request, and so we were a church family. We shared our deep faith with them and they were very much part of it every day. But what happens is, that as you become adult, you really have to take ownership of your faith in an entirely different and personal way, come to terms with who you are, and it takes some time.

I think Vanessa was about 30 when she finally came to that realization that her sexual orientation was different. She had been able to travel around the world, study in China and in England for her Master’s, being away from home, and being exposed to a world outside our particular bubble really kind of opened her eyes in a different way. And when she shared (with me, at first) - I had already talked with you, Norm, and I had sought some counselling, because I really had the sense that something was going to happen when she came home for Christmas that year. I think I was sort of prepared for it, in that I needed to know how to respond if she did share with me. And so we went for that walk in the snow, and she did share that she was gay. And so, the advice that I had gotten was: Whatever you do, the first words that you say are going to be the things she remembers for life. All I can tell you is: we just cried. And we hugged. And I told her I love her as much today as I did yesterday. It’s still an emotional thing. But the tough part for me was - she literally had to leave for the airport right after this, because she was heading back to London, and she asked before we got back to the house, “Would you tell Mom?”

So I took her to the airport, and it took about a week before I had the courage to share it with Anita. And it completely blindsided her. She was totally unprepared for it. Norm, you had given us a Christian counsellor’s name, and I had already seen the counsellor, and I had set up appointments for us to get counselling together on how to deal with this. As you know, and she did a wonderful, wonderful job. And so - Vanessa, when she got back (she had to travel to China at that time) - she called me up, and asked, “How did it go, Dad?”

I said, “Well, Mom’s having a really hard time with it.” She responded, “I’m coming back home, and I’d like to go to a counselling with both you and Mom.” Then Vanessa talked to Anita, and Anita asked, “You know - listen: I love you - but I’ve really got to know: how are you and God?” And Vanessa said, “God and I are just fine. It’s people I have a problem with.”

N.A. - Well - that’s true for most of us.

P.V. - She was having to work through a lot of issues on her own as well…

N.A. - So this gets down to: Your issues were not around “Do you love your daughter? Do you respect your daughter? Does she have integrity? Does she have faith?” Your issues were “How do I put together some understanding of the gospel in the context of what I have really been raised in, which is very different from what I am dealing with?” And so, if you were to say - What does your faith inform you about a situation now, where it isn’t about behaviour or morality; it’s about identity - Where does that all connect for you, and how have the… I mean, I think there probably have been some good people and some unfortunate people, but Vanessa’s point is probably true: that she would have felt rejection by the institutions in which she was raised - or would have been concerned that that might have been the case.

P.V. - Yes, very much so. There was a lot of confusion in the beginning. But again, Norm, you recommended another family who had gone through the same kind of a journey. You arranged for them to come visit us, and started us on this process of – prayer, study, looking at Scripture, and reading that we went through. I would have to say that I don’t think anybody understands this situation unless they’ve had to go through this themselves. It’s your child that you are dealing with, trying to understand it. And love them through this whole process. It’s tough. We joined a support group of Christian families with gay children, and this really helped us work our way through that process of coming to understand that Vanessa is as loved by God as everybody else. And understanding her orientation. And - I was going to say, “Be comfortable with it.” That all takes time. But we are at peace with it.

N.A. - You have a great relationship with Vanessa. You and Anita both. You’ve been on lots of vacations… And she has a great relationship with sister Serena, as far as I know. I remember at your mom’s funeral a year ago when the grandkids were up on the stage, Vanessa was very much part of that - and that was in your Finnish Pentecostal Church. I thought that was a wonderful moment, where both of your daughters were equally accepted to speak on behalf of their grandmother in that context.

Because the interesting thing - the Bible doesn’t actually have a lot to say about people with an identity that’s different than just our traditional male/female. And so - how we then cope with what do we think being followers of Jesus means about all this is actually a very complex issue.

P.V. - It is a very complex issue. And I’ve certainly - my belief, and the way I view Scripture, the way I view the teaching that we’ve gotten - has changed enormously as a result of this.

N.A. - How so?

P.V. - I’m very supportive of Vanessa. And I’m proud of what she has done, and where she is. And the fact that she had the honesty to come forth with this, and be honest about it, rather than trying to hide sexual identity. I love her as much now as I ever did; I love her more.

N.A. - Right. And talk about Serena and Byron, and - I forget Serena’s husband’s name…

P.V. - Andrew. Listen - they are - Byron is the joy of our life…

N.A. - How old is he now?

P.V. - He is about 2 years, 4 or 5 months. He’s such a joy and a blessing for us. I just love him to pieces. And it’s incredibly joyful to be with Byron, to be with Serena and Andrew, and just to celebrate this little - this little gift from God.

N.A. - Now, to talk about your own spiritual journey, your inner journey of conversation with God, your  perhaps expanding understanding of your experience with God over the years - as we have aged together.

P.V. - It’s been an up-and-down journey, I have to admit. I think there were a lot of years when I was just completely obsessed with business - where my faith walk really kind of took a back seat; I was living a double life. In that, I worked in a very secular kind of a business, and yet at the same time I was attending church - I think I was even on the board of the church at the time. But they were two completely separate things. There came a time when I felt I really had to come to terms with it, and I think I went agnostic for some time, because I had so many doubts and so many questions. One of the really big challenges for me was not understanding the love of God. And finally it started to break when we went on that Touchstone group weekend retreat, and you gave me some great advice.

N.A. - Whatever I said must have been translated by the Holy Spirit into something useful. But what was the advice, and then what was your experience?

P.V. - I was really questioning God. And you told me to just go by myself and you gave me some readings and said just: “Go sit somewhere by yourself and imagine that you’re sitting in your Father’s lap, and you ask Him those tough questions. And pour out your thoughts, questions.” For me, that was one of those incredible moments where I really got to sense and feel and knowing God differently. That started a whole new search for me - in reading and in viewing Scripture and in prayer in a different way. That journey and that searching has gone on ever since. You gave me a bunch of good books to read which I have gone through…

N.A. - The interesting thing is that you are a widely-read person; you think deeply, and you’re not afraid to voice doubts and questions. But I have never felt that you were walking away from God by being honest about your doubts and questions - I felt like you were just taking God seriously. And that God could ultimately handle the questions. Would you agree with that?

P.V. – I’m sort of a perpetual doubter, and questioner. My wife rolls her eyes when I start going down a certain path, and says, “Here we go again.” But I would say the questioning and searching for answers, finding some answers and not finding others, yes - has definitely deepened my faith. I think honesty is incredibly crucial in this, because I was just living in denial for the longest time over some of these issues, when I just refused to face them. I feel I am in a very, very different place now than I was even 10 years ago.

N.A. – P.V. - I think probably the story I mentioned to the guys on the retreat was one of my learning experiences, when my grandson (who is now 15) was about 18 months old. I was babysitting him in Vancouver where Heidi and her husband Mark lived at the time. It was after supper and he was scrambling around the townhouse where they lived, and I was just - my job was to keep him from killing himself; and then he started to slow down, and I kept thinking, “Well there is something about my relationship with him that is like the heavenly Father’s relationship with me. He is giving me lots of space just to keep me from doing anything too self-destructive…” And anyway, there came a point where Wade got up on my lap and we were doing a few things, and he had a ball on an elastic band. He was banging it and banging it at high speed and high speed and high speed; and then it just started to slow down - and it slowed down and it slowed down, and his hand hit my lap, and his head hit my chest, and he went to sleep. And I thought, “What a great picture of what some kinds of prayer are - that our prayer experience is just a laying back on the Father’s chest. And to experience His love.” And in that retreat setting, my recollection is - you not only laid back on the Father’s chest: you laid down on a couch down in the bunkie near the lake - talk about that experience.

P.V. - It was one of those experiences: the sun was shining, and it was warm there, and I was sort of reclined on the couch, and I was imagining myself sitting in my father’s lap - I sort of had that visual in front of me, but realizing that it was God - and being open and honest. And then, slowly drifting off for a nap.

N.A. - And then when you woke up - what happened?

P.V. - When I woke up I just had this real sense of peace that was completely different from before I went into that private time and nap on the couch.

N.A. - And one last question, Pekka. You have been married to Anita for 48 years. Now, I’ve been married coming in to my fifty-second year. And it’s not all been peaches and cream, and it’s not all… Susan and I have definitely had lots of opportunities for growth and development. But we would say it’s been worth the scraps and the challenges and the difficult times. Talk about 48 years of marriage and the ups and downs and the value of it all to you. And how valuable Anita has been for you to get to this point.

P.V. - I would say she has been incredibly valuable. We’ve had our differences, like all married couples do. And I would say that she’s been that side of me that was really lacking. Her sensitivity, her intuition and her wisdom during these difficult times really has sustained me. And I look at it now, and I would have been a very, very different self-centred person had I not married Anita and lived through these tough times together.

Probably one of the things that comes to mind is that moment when - you had mentioned in ’88, ’89 - you know, the recession; when things got very difficult and our company had to declare bankruptcy. Consequently I had all kinds of covenants on lines of credit with media, etc, and I ended up having to go bankrupt myself. I had to unburden it all on Anita, and she said, “You know what? Just know that I love you, and your kids love you, and that’s the important part. Listen; we will work our way through this, and if we have to live simpler, we will do that.” And so, she had that rock-solid stability that I lacked during the time - that really helped me get through an incredibly difficult time in my life.

N.A. - Any other things you’d like to add before I can make a couple of closing comments?

P.V. - I think that’s about it. I think we’ve covered a fair bit of ground…

N.A. - Well, Pekka, thank you very much for taking the time to do this. Pekka has been a great friend to me personally. He has been a great stimulus by his questions and his wisdom as he has explored them. Thank you for watching this video with us. We hope you enjoy it, and we trust that some of the things that Pekka has talked about might actually encourage you in your own journey in business, in family, amongst friendships; and that you might be able to sit quietly in the Father’s lap, put your head back on his chest, and sense the breath of God in your life, and experience his peace and his power and his hope as he is revealed in Jesus Christ.

So, thanks for being with us - and we hope one day, we’ll have another one of these podcasts!